The Gaming Den

Why not simply swap Prometheans and Leviathans, where Leviathans get Alcohol weakness and Prometheans get Sunlight weakness?

FrankTrollman wrote: Well, as you've noted - Deep Ones can't be vulnerable to water. It would cause a paradox wave to swallow the sun. About the best I could do as far as that goes is to swap Lycanthropes and Leviathan Alcohol for Sunlight. Do you strongly feel that's a better assignment?

I don't, because I don't think there is a good assignment, because honestly Frank? The three weaknesses system is really cute, but I don't think it works at all. Balance wise, sure, but it makes flavor just fucking bizarre. You can't shoehorn all these types into three things that are flavorful and available and all the other things you want.

Also, side note: did I miss the memo where we found traditionally weak-to-alcohol supers? I can't think of a single source off the top of my head where we doused the monster in vodka to save ourselves, though maybe I'm forgetting something.

Grek wrote:Why not simply swap Prometheans and Leviathans, where Leviathans get Alcohol weakness and Prometheans get Sunlight weakness?

Robots being unable to use their special powers in sunlight makes even less sense.

[Edit]
Looking over the Reborn and thinking about their inspiration, I can't help but think that Learn the Heart's Pain and Banishment (from Names of the Blasphemies) make more sense than the Celerity powers, and that Aura Perception makes more sense than Heightened Senses. That would kill Celerity as a core discipline; replacing it with Auspex or Presence would make some amount of sense.

Frankenstein's Monster being able to run around at full power in the daytime (as opposed to Dracula who can't) is a major plot point of Monster Squad and Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein. It might have been a plot point in Van Helsing too, but that movie was so terrible that I can't figure out what the plot was supposed to be.

Endersdouble wrote:Also, side note: did I miss the memo where we found traditionally weak-to-alcohol supers? I can't think of a single source off the top of my head where we doused the monster in vodka to save ourselves, though maybe I'm forgetting something.

It's basically all over the ancient literature. Fermentation is something that civilization can do that animals can't. Beer takes a long time to make, but it keeps your grain edible through the winter, making it something that both requires and allows civilization. You can sell it to nomads and you can store it to wait out bad weather and even bad years. It basically keeps monsters away for the same reason that live grain and iron do.

With the advent of refrigeration, alcohol has become much less of a big thing. But classically monsters from the wilderness could not hold their beer the way a civilized person could, so you could get a ogre drunk and kill it/steal from it in its sleep. Also, spirits let you see and/or drive away spirits, which is where that name comes from.

Catharz wrote:Looking over the Reborn and thinking about their inspiration, I can't help but think that Learn the Heart's Pain and Banishment (from Names of the Blasphemies) make more sense than the Celerity powers, and that Aura Perception makes more sense than Heightened Senses. That would kill Celerity as a core discipline; replacing it with Auspex or Presence would make some amount of sense.

I was going for more of a New Mummy movies feel with the Reborn. Where being Reborn turns you into what is essentially an action hero who occasionally gets flashes of insight from the past. You get flashbacks, and then you can suddenly do wuxia Egyptian martial arts. Not like the original Mummy movies, where becoming Reborn turned you into a mind controlling sorcerer.

-Username17

There are animals that take advantage of fermentation... There are primates who love themselves some fermented fruit, and there are ants who actually take cut up leaves and ferment them, not to mention ants that basically farm....

Prak_Anima wrote:There are animals that take advantage of fermentation... There are primates who love themselves some fermented fruit, and there are ants who actually take cut up leaves and ferment them, not to mention ants that basically farm....

Alcohol is naturally occurring, yes. Sometimes you'll see finches or raccoons happen upon a tree where the fruit has gone sour, and they'll have raucous parties. But they can't store that shit, because they don't have pottery or even basketry.

And yes, there are ants that farm. They are pretty much civilized in every way that matters. It's kind of disturbing.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:

Prak_Anima wrote:There are animals that take advantage of fermentation... There are primates who love themselves some fermented fruit, and there are ants who actually take cut up leaves and ferment them, not to mention ants that basically farm....

Alcohol is naturally occurring, yes. Sometimes you'll see finches or raccoons happen upon a tree where the fruit has gone sour, and they'll have raucous parties. But they can't store that shit, because they don't have pottery or even basketry.

And yes, there are ants that farm. They are pretty much civilized in every way that matters. It's kind of disturbing.

-Username17

ok, I can see the point of difference on the alcohol thing... though I'm kind of curious as to whether the primates have ever stored it...

Prak_Anima wrote: I'm kind of curious as to whether the primates have ever stored it...

Most primates live in tropical regions which aren't really conducive to refrigerating during the winter since they have no winter. On the upside, they don't need to store stuff for seasons either.

I was thinking more for transport and later enjoyment, not seasonal storage...

FrankTrollman wrote:And yes, there are ants that farm. They are pretty much civilized in every way that matters. It's kind of disturbing.

So which playable type is most ant-like, and what's a good anathema material for inhuman-in-the-way-of-an-ant theme? That should get at least one anathema material sorted.

A Man In Black wrote:

FrankTrollman wrote:And yes, there are ants that farm. They are pretty much civilized in every way that matters. It's kind of disturbing.

So which playable type is most ant-like, and what's a good anathema material for inhuman-in-the-way-of-an-ant theme? That should get at least one anathema material sorted.

Mi go are the most ant like, considering that they're probably full of supernatural hymenoptera. And hymenoptera of all types tend to hate water, or at least be killed in great numbers by it.

The tragedy of the mi go seems to be loss of self to the crowd: They aren't sure whether they truly share the identity of the body whose memories they now have or the bugs that now inhabit them. Thanks to telepathy, sometimes they even hear other people's thoughts in their (many) heads, and can make their thoughts known to others. I'm guessing it really breaks down in the Madness Network, and I wouldn't be surprised if many members became little more than thralls to more powerful hive minds.

On Cults:

Is it appropriate to take your cult as a duty or stalker? De Rigeur?

Can you expect any help from a cult just by writing it on your sheet, or are you expected to use Assets, Contacts, and Destiny to represent the help your cult provides you?

Are Poltergeists intended to be glass cannons? We one-shotted one in a recent session When the Willpower 7 Child of Aether use telekinesis to facepunch it with a Damage 2 wooden pole. Since Poltergeists like to cause property damage to old houses, it seems like wooden weapons should be plentifully available whenever fighting one, and no matter how much Willpower or how much Potence you give them, they're still going to soak with 0.

aWoD wrote:As a general rule of thumb, driving over 10 KPH faster than the safe speed is has a threshold of 1, 20 KPH faster has a threshold of 2, 40 KPH faster has a threshold of 3, 80 KPH faster has a threshold of 4, and so on.

Frank, are you seriously telling me that driving 13 mph above the speed limit can only be done reliably by people with eight dice on their driving tests? Normal people do that all the time. And while I'm not so insane, I've definitely heard tales of normal (if very irresponsible) teenagers going 100 miles per hour on roads with 40 mph speed limits. Also, I'd like to bring up the issue once again of finding people who are hiding taking a seriously short length of time, assuming I'm interpreting it right as corresponding to steps on the time chart.

Orion wrote:I disagree. You SHOULD sometimes want to refrain from breaking a summons, so you can follow the girl in the trance to the monster lair. Breaking the compulsion should leave them confused about where they are and what they were doing.

Sorry for the double post, just wanted to say that I support this. Summons is kind of a continuous feed of what absolute direction to travel; when the connection is cut, you're still facing a certain direction, but have no idea what further steps to take to get to the summoner.

Gelare wrote:

aWoD wrote:As a general rule of thumb, driving over 10 KPH faster than the safe speed is has a threshold of 1, 20 KPH faster has a threshold of 2, 40 KPH faster has a threshold of 3, 80 KPH faster has a threshold of 4, and so on.

Frank, are you seriously telling me that driving 13 mph above the speed limit can only be done reliably by people with eight dice on their driving tests? Normal people do that all the time. And while I'm not so insane, I've definitely heard tales of normal (if very irresponsible) teenagers going 100 miles per hour on roads with 40 mph speed limits. Also, I'd like to bring up the issue once again of finding people who are hiding taking a seriously short length of time, assuming I'm interpreting it right as corresponding to steps on the time chart.

Heh. That's movie logic for you. Watch what happens to anyone who isn't established as a "good driver" in a horror movie if they try to go anywhere at more than 78 MPH. If you'd like, I can fiddle with the numbers a bit or give an empty straight highway exception, but honestly driving fast in horror movies is just incredibly difficult.

Orion wrote:On Cults:

Is it appropriate to take your cult as a duty or stalker? De Rigeur?

That would be de rigeur.

Can you expect any help from a cult just by writing it on your sheet, or are you expected to use Assets, Contacts, and Destiny to represent the help your cult provides you?

Your cult is a great way to explain getting such resources once play begins, but you do got to buy them for the start of play. One thing I was thinking about doing was to give a cult bonus for their favored resource types. The one I'm leaning towards is simply a +1 bonus for ratings 1-3. So you can get a Level 4 Destiny through the Stellar Oracles while only being entitled to a Level 3 Resource. Or a Level 2 Contacts through the Church of Set in exchange for a level 1 obligation. That sort of thing.

Are Poltergeists intended to be glass cannons?

Very much so. Also they respawn. But the big thing is that they are offnsively powerful and you can call them in with an Advanced Discipline (Nightcry).

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:Heh. That's movie logic for you. Watch what happens to anyone who isn't established as a "good driver" in a horror movie if they try to go anywhere at more than 78 MPH. If you'd like, I can fiddle with the numbers a bit or give an empty straight highway exception, but honestly driving fast in horror movies is just incredibly difficult.

Maybe it's worth calling this out as a specific genre thing? People will be less unhappy with it if they know it's unrealistic for a reason.

Usually speed limits are not actually the maximum safe speeds. They're a bit more complicated than that.

13 mph over the safe speed may be a bit more like 33 mph over the speed limit, varying widely depending upon road conditions and other factors. Often the biggest danger will depend upon how fast you are relative to the rest of the traffic. If you are passing people by going >20mph faster than them, you are going counter to their expectations and may surprise someone to disastrous effect. Passing people at an even greater difference in velocity is crazy dangerous.

I think the bigger factor for determining difficulty in driving checks is not safe speeds (since those are hard to gauge, and sometimes not intuitive as so many people think of speed limits as the "safe speeds"), but relative speeds to traffic, and how much traffic there is. Heavy traffic makes that difference in speed a lot more significant.
[edit: the data on that relative speed vs. accident frquency curve seems conflicted, so maybe I'm totally wrong, but it seems intuitively obvious to my driving experience. I feel most at risk if I am passing people too quickly or if people are passing me too quickly]

In that case, you could throw down threshold's based upon driving much faster than the rest of traffic (this will account for traffic slowing down for bad weather or going faster tha speed limits on clear days). On empty roads I suppose some speed + road condition heuristic could be used, but meh. The usual driving checks are most often going to be in navigating around other drivers.

The skill check roll when speeding is to account for when a strong gust of wind blows, or a critter or vehicle forces some sort of evasive maneuver (even if the maneuver is to override your instinct to dodge that possum in the road and just stay on course).


For what it is worth in this discussion (not much), when I was a stupider teenager who definitely was a below average driver who had good reflexes but horribly poor judgment and a lack of experience, I still managed to drive ~115mph on a 35mph unpaved road (taking up both lanes as there was no traffic for miles around) a couple times just to test myself. It felt alot like 55mph on an incredibly slick snowy road. The safe speed for that road was probably around 55mph, since beyond that I could notice the poorer grip on the road. If I only had a single lane, or if there were bad weather or any critters/vehicle encounters, I'm sure I would have had a bad day. I had good visibility since the surrounding area was harvested farm land (i.e. empty dirt fields).

I'm looking forward to seeing how you write up Houston, though I don't know what your priorities are for what needs to get done in the document.

What kind of argument do bribes fall under?

What is the base time for the extended test for Telepathy's mind reading? A minute?

I assume that for the Leviathans that Patience of the Mountains doesn't truly make them unchanging, since they explicitly are said to become less human looking with age. I can imagine the growing pains for a troglodyte during their teenage years as their human teeth fall out for the flesh rending kind.

For Swarm Body, can the character disperse themselves to get multiple things done? As an aside, Fire Walking and Hand of Flame combined with Swarm Body, are the victims only damaged once per round if swarmed?

Is it a bad idea for an In Media Res story to mix supernaturals and "monster hunters" into the same party? Or does the mortal just need to make damn sure he knows how to protect himself against the supernatural?

virgileso wrote:Is it a bad idea for an In Media Res story to mix supernaturals and "monster hunters" into the same party? Or does the mortal just need to make damn sure he knows how to protect himself against the supernatural?

Those kind of team-up monster hunting squads do totally exist in the source material. However, bear in mind that, mechanically, the monster hunters will suck because they get an edge while the supernaturals get ten whole disciplines.

Well, I just got my credit for Pathology and Pathophysiology. Just two more tests and I'll have a lot more time on my hands for a month or so.

As Gelare points out: Monsters are substantially more powerful than humans, because they have magic powers. Humans in an IMR game do not start out as powerful as a monster, because it's entirely possible for them to just get converted into a Vampire or Werewolf first thing - and I don't want to go the old d6 Star Wars route where the first thing everyone does is go learn magic.

For Swarm Body, can the character disperse themselves to get multiple things done? As an aside, Fire Walking and Hand of Flame combined with Swarm Body, are the victims only damaged once per round if swarmed?

Sure. I suppose that each potential victim would only get burned once per round. But looking on it, going fire swarm is still really brutal.

I could do Houston next.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:

For Swarm Body, can the character disperse themselves to get multiple things done? As an aside, Fire Walking and Hand of Flame combined with Swarm Body, are the victims only damaged once per round if swarmed?

Sure. I suppose that each potential victim would only get burned once per round. But looking on it, going fire swarm is still really brutal.

I've been meaning to ask about swarm form for a while now. If someone with a butterfly net pinches of a bit of your swarm and keeps in in a box, can they pretty much kill you any time, anywhere by throwing sand on it?

If multiple people dispel your swarm form simultaneously in multiple places, do you end up with multiple wounded copies of yourself?

Wouldn't the reasonable thing to do be to have your body form at the location of the plurality of your swarm and have all of the extra bugs that don't make it back disapear?

Grek wrote:Wouldn't the reasonable thing to do be to have your body form at the location of the plurality of your swarm and have all of the extra bugs that don't make it back disapear?

Or just die (leaving dead bugs around is an interesting calling card). But, yeah, that might be the best way to do it.

Alternatively, give the character a choice: take the damage caused by loosing the amount of the swarm affected, or immediately return to her normal form at the location it was dispelled.


[Edit]
Hey Frank, was it intentional that a Child of Ether with empty body can put on an iron diving suit and interact with the world in a somewhat normal fashion, or is that just an amazing bit of synergy?

CatharzGodfoot wrote:

Grek wrote:Wouldn't the reasonable thing to do be to have your body form at the location of the plurality of your swarm and have all of the extra bugs that don't make it back disapear?

Or just die (leaving dead bugs around is an interesting calling card). But, yeah, that might be the best way to do it.

Alternatively, give the character a choice: take the damage caused by loosing the amount of the swarm affected, or immediately return to her normal form at the location it was dispelled.


[Edit]
Hey Frank, was it intentional that a Child of Ether with empty body can put on an iron diving suit and interact with the world in a somewhat normal fashion, or is that just an amazing bit of synergy?

So the way I clarified it, the character can choose where they end up when the swarm ends. And bugs that can't get to the body die, and dead bugs translate to lethal wounds.

-Username17

Good to know. I was thinking about a better name for mi go because, honestly, they're nothing like the alien mi go and the name is kind of dumb. "The Hollow" seems to be the best fit, but of course conflicts with Playtex employees. Perhaps the moniker 'hollow ones' could be dropped from the corporates? After all, verbena resemble WoD verbena very little.

And by the way, I just tried reading that book and it is atrocious. Kudos for making something good out of them.